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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
79
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Posted - 2014.10.16 06:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:All this talk of isk/hour for null. What for? Honestly null is the true sandbox of EvE. What is the isk for?
Fuel? Is there not the right materials in null to make it? Ships, ammo, modules, rigs, etc.? Is there not the right materials in null to make it?
What's the isk for? Don't tell me it's to go and buy the stuff that can be made out in null off the high sec market hubs....
Null groups don't need isk/hour to "sustain" their members. They need a proper industrial foundation from which to build their empire upon and an established market to support it.
Feel free to tell us how you get a six billion isk ship for free.
Canned response nr. 0382 when talking about income nerfs in high: You dont need expensive ships to have fun!
Also for that dominix thing, dunno isnt that really a problem of not having cheaper ships available for purchase from the alliance due to paperwork? |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 07:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
He didn't say high. If you're going on a dread fleet to kill a tower, you bring a dread. The materials and ISK to buy one doesn't magically appear upon request. Fun and doctrines are completely unrelated, you don't win sov wars with fun ships. You win it with unified doctrines. If that doctrine so happens to be a fun ship it's all the better but usually they're not.
Sov and other structure bashing is not a solo endeavor, he made those 6 bil comments in a way that suggested that he makes the fits for experiments (baltec II rokh?), very similar to a highsec missioner buying expensive ships and mods to be able to facetank stuff for convenience, the same missioner that is being repeatedly told to not use them, because "You dont need expensive ships to have fun". |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 18:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: So who is going to be building ships at below cost?
Compared to refunding/replacing them? |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 18:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
First off, I don't hate Gevlon.
Secondly, define "themepark". Because I haven't seen anything from alliance leadership that is anything along the lines of what is traditionally considered themepark content in MMO's.
I surely cannot speak for the crazy goblin, but within the given context the term "theme park" is usually used to describe a more accessible approach to the game, say you dont loose anything when dying, you get to skip grind and most unconveniences, get rewards for participation, and so on...
What seems to me what he is saying that it is not the best goal for the game as a whole to attract people that expect to pvp (and win) 23/7 in one window while afk ratting for much more isk than they loose in said pvp in the second window.
Personally i dont find the situation that gloomy (like anyone would care :) ), but some of the comments here do seem to me like having the cake and eating at the same time. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 18:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Barton Breau wrote: Also for that dominix thing, dunno isnt that really a problem of not having cheaper ships available for purchase from the alliance due to paperwork?
The ship itself was 320. 120 mil in expired insurance purchases 30 mil for new rigs 30 odd mill for shipping/jump fuel Yes, that will totally be fixed by the alliance having cheaper ships available for purchase . Preferably for free, right? No one would ever buy such free ships and fly them to Jita to sell or anything, I'm sure. That will totally fix the above listed line member expenses. SRP on strategic operations typically pays the contract purchase price of the ship minus platinum insurance payout. It's up to you to acquire the ship. At times, it is up to you to get the ship to where it is supposed to be in one piece. It is up to you to keep it insured. That includes caps.
Not to be very harsh but that contracting and moving around was kinda your choice (not mentioning the rigs), and i did mention the paperwork required for giving out stuff for free/cheaper.
Its a sandbox in the end, the system is what you make it to be, sure it is easier just leave the details to the line members (and possibly the only choice with the given the cadre availability in null :) ), but what you are decribing in the context of null ratting is that the game should subsidize alliance redeployment. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It doesn't sit right with you because you're making it all up in your head lol. Your biases and prejudices are the issue here, not what anyone else is doing. Something i read a few years ago seems to be relevant here (and it's why i read your posts and immediately thought of Dinsdale): http://www.alternet.org/story/150730/one_surprising_reason_people_may_believe_bizarre_conspiracy_theoriesQuote:GÇ£These studies suggest that people who have more lax personal morality may endorse conspiracy theories to a greater extent because they are, on average, more willing to participate in the conspiracies themselves.GÇ¥
Its not a conspiracy when evryone except the chicken is on it, it becomes more of a political goal. :)
Who the chicken is is a more interesting question, if you ask me. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 20:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Barton Breau wrote: What seems to me what he is saying that it is not the best goal for the game as a whole to attract people that expect to pvp (and win) 23/7 in one window while afk ratting for much more isk than they loose in said pvp in the second window.
Personally i dont find the situation that gloomy (like anyone would care :) ), but some of the comments here do seem to me like having the cake and eating at the same time.
I too sit away from the keyboard in a 200 million ISK ship tackled by npc frigates for minutes at a time while manually flying a 50 million ISK Rifter covered by SRP on my primary screen. Totally risk free 50 mil per hour! You can do it too! Come have your cake and eat it too! Well, more like 40 mil per hour, because I'm afk you see and don't warp to the next site as soon as the current one is done. Assuming I didn't join the fleet with both characters in the first place. If you are really that sour about it, you will be glad to know one of my corp mates constantly runs incursions with an alt on his other screen during and in between any and all fleets he joins. He makes something like 30 mil every 10 minutes. Yay high sec. You are also severely mistaken if you think the only pvp that happens is when a fleet is pinged for and "the blob" rolls out, with everyone just making money the rest of the time. You will also have to elaborate on your definition of always winning. Where the theme park comes from in a away is timers. The timer lets everyone know that at that particular time something will occur in that particular system, even on that particular grid. That's how the big leaders organize events for us to attend. But is forcing fights really a bad thing, considering the alternative of out of time zone asset flipping?
You are mistaking me for the crazy goblin :) |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 21:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:[ It was kinda my choice to move it. That's right. A choice between - leaving it in scalding pass, jump cloning home and buying a new one (it's now a NC. station) - Flying it 50 jumps without support and dying on the way (30mil SRP), then buying a new one - Paying to have it moved
As I mentioned before there was a move op. I missed it. Real life happens and I schedule EvE around it, not the other way around. It was just one example of how SRP does not cover the entirety of a line member's expenses. The intent of SRP is so that when you lose your ship, you get the money to replace it and fly in the next fleet a few days later. That's it. In my year in the CFC I've spent a couple billion out of pocket on ships and insurance and many of them I have hardly flown.
Furthermore, the "paperwork" you are talking about to reduce cost.. you are literally talking about having guys donate their time to the alliance running around in their jump freighters for hours so they can sell ships to members at jita prices in the ass end of nowhere. That's not how it works. The guys doing the hauling charge you for their effort in getting the equipment there. Or you can buy it in Jita and haul it yourself if you prefer. The alliance covers these expenses for the ships that are actually lost in way of SRP.
What I'm describing in the context of null ratting is a game where hostile ratting systems don't have people ratting, because it's not worth it over income sources that are safer, more consistent and more lucrative. Starving out enemy line members from using their space should be a victory that forces them into travel time and inferior income sources, having an impact on the conflict. As it is, Sov Null is the worst place for a combat pilot to earn money in EvE to begin with. Doesn't that sound completely backwards?
The paperwork i was referring to is the keeping track of who got what for free, as to reduce what you have described, jita sell, nothing more.
Personally i am surprised with the percieved preposterousness of the situation where you are not a member of a alliance , but more or less a employee of it.
Maybe the settled in relationships that enabled huge groups to exist so far are the more pressing problem.
Lucrativity is a matter of perception (apart of maybe incursions being still too high), 20m ticks + possible loot + possible salvage sounds quite good to the average highsec player warping around +-2 systems in a bs, combined with the occasional signature or belt rat, very few are willing and capable to do missions like stoic.
Which reminds me that i dont remember hearing what is suggested as mission rewards for the proposed npc missions, surely it is not suggested that one will get 60mil for a run of the mill 10min mission, is it? |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 05:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote: There is no occasional belt rat on top, because time going to belts is time not ratting therefore no ticks. Same with scanning signatures.
If this attitude is widespread there is no wonder noone makes money.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 05:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
A bog standard t2 cruise raven will beat null income. Blitzing missions isnt hard.
With a fabled agent that sends you just within the local system, maybe. |
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